So Discord finally responded to my email. I asked them specifically what I did wrong, and they gave me yet another list of possible things I could've done. They said it was either spam or platform abuse.

This makes me more sure that I was banned because I was closing my old DMs too quickly using the official client.

They said they'd lift my ban once *generously* (/s). I hate these fucking centralised services.

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@ascclemens you ought to ditch Discord like the two-bit garbage it is

Use open chat platforms

@sir I already use Matrix and IRC, and I used XMPP before that. Unfortunately, much like Windows, Discord has the market share and it's very hard to get even close friends to switch, let alone entire communities.

@ascclemens @sir "let alone entire communities" tbh one of the big things which has let me (mostly) sideline discord was being permabanned from a number of communities I was previously active in. Not everyone has that luxury~
@allison @ascclemens @sir the communities i had an important role in, they agreed to let me bridge to matrix, so win-win

@wowaname @allison @ascclemens bridging is another good compromise for the time being

@ascclemens your close friends would come with you. If not, how close are they really? And fun fact: there are new people who want to be your friend on other platforms, too. FOMO no matter what you do.

@sir I'm not interested in making new friends on new platforms. My close friends might begrudgingly come with me and then forget to open the app because they use it only to talk to one person.

I've already been through this with XMPP and Matrix, twice for each.

Also, there are a large number of communities that are primarily on Discord. I write plugins for a game, and their primary chat and news source is a Discord server. That's not even FOMO; that's just a major hindrance to my ability to maintain and create plugins.

I don't like Discord, but it has become the easy, default option for most people. The same people who don't realise or don't care that Google is actively harvesting all their information, which is a lot of people.

It's not realistic for me to just turn off Discord.

@ascclemens so how the fuck do you expect this to change if you're being part of the "my friends are there" problem

@sir I tried to move and it didn't work. I'm not going to estrange myself from my friends in the name of open chat platforms. Maybe the entire onus shouldn't be on people moving.

@sir > Maybe the entire onus shouldn't be on people moving.

In the end, it's not my job to change it.

I did my part and attempted to get people to move; it just doesn't stick because it has to be more than one person doing it, I think.

@sir I'm fairly certain I've made it clear that my answer is "I don't know, it's not my job to do so." Maybe community leaders should delete their Discords and move to open chat platforms instead of individual people.

@ascclemens here we go, this is a good idea: we should convince community leaders to move to open platforms.

@sir The staying power Discord has is the number of communities people are already in, I think, so if more move to open platforms, they'll have a reason to stick around.

@sir @ascclemens And for most community leaders, their criteria for switching essentially is "is it a drop-in replacement for Discord and does it look like it's going to last any substantial length of time"

Look at how Skype died if you want cues on how to proceed here (and before you propose IRC as a drop-in replacement, it isn't, as much as I like using it)
@sir @ascclemens (I say this as someone who has been in this exact dilemma almost since Discord itself has been a thing, to the point of keeping track of Matrix since 2016. One of the really nice things about fedi is that it has enough features, usability, and staying power that it has pretty much completely killed Twitter and other mainstream social media for me. The same can't necessarily be said of chat yet, for better or worse)
@ascclemens @sir if you don't want to make the effort to change it that's fine. Complaining about using proprietary software while using proprietary software voluntarily is less fine.

@qrsbrwn @sir I'm literally already using Matrix and have MADE the effort to get people to move. It didn't stick. I fully have the right to complain about being stuck using proprietary software while also using open software and having tried to get people to move. You don't get to tell me I don't.

@ascclemens @sir I'm not saying you aren't allowed to complain about it, I'm saying it isn't a flattering look.
You just have to decide what is important and then live with that decision.
What you do is within your power.

@qrsbrwn Then it's a good thing that I don't care if you think it's flattering or not. The reality is that in the real world, there are lots of people who can't just turn off proprietary software completely. I can still complain about being forced to use it. I use the alternative open software, too.

@ascclemens I'm still not complaining about you using proprietary software. I'm complaining about you complaining about software no one is forcing you to use.

@qrsbrwn Except that I am forced to use it. Sorry, it's not an *option* for me to keep up social relationships with my friends, especially in the corona times. No, they're not going to switch platform; we've already been over this.

@ascclemens you choose the people who wouldn't move over choice of platform. That isn't "being forced", that is "making a choice".

@qrsbrwn It's a choice that isn't really a choice. Sure, I could choose to estrange myself from my friends of several years because they... use Discord? Does that seem like the correct answer to you? Real life requires compromise; we can't live in idealised imaginary worlds.

@ascclemens @qrsbrwn This reminds me of something. I have Telegram on all of my devices. Why do I have it on my devices? It's literally the only way I can keep in touch with my parents (especially my mom). Expecting me to forsake contact with my family in the name of some sort of contrived ideological purity isn't going to happen, and I'll thoroughly rebuke anyone who even *hints* at such notions to me.
@qrsbrwn @ascclemens It's the same line of reasoning that some of the replies to OP were implying.
@allison @ascclemens @qrsbrwn telegram's undeniably a step up from the poorly-secured telephony and sms systems
@wowaname @ascclemens @qrsbrwn It can even do video calls and stuff now, which is *really* nice for obvious reasons~
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@qrsbrwn @ascclemens both you and @sir need to be a bit more realistic about making compromises between ideals and relationships.

discord demanding my phone number is where i drew the line, besides i didnt have many real friends there in the first place. i already talked to my friends via other means.

now i draw the line at either completely foss/e2ee (xmpp, matrix) or client-side foss/e2ee (signal, telegram). the latter platforms have some privacy compromises i'm willing to make for people i know irl already.
@wowaname @ascclemens @sir I haven't advocated hardlining and leaving all friends behind. I have advocated making choices and living with those choices.
Painting it as one has no choice just isn't what actually is happening, one is making a choice.

@qrsbrwn @wowaname @sir You also say it's "less good" and "a bad look" to make a realistic choice and complain about not being able to make the better choice, which isn't really fair.

@ascclemens @wowaname @sir how is that not fair?
You are complaining about a choice you made.
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@qrsbrwn @sir respectable, but as @ascclemens suggested, people make choices based upon different criteria, which is why it isnt always wise to criticise other people's decisions

the first step toward accepting better, freer solutions, is to educate people rather than reprimand them. tell them why they should be curious about these other options, rather than bashing them for their current choices
@wowaname @ascclemens @sir as you can see if you reread the thread I am not critical of the choice. In fact, I have repeatedly written that I am not.
I'm critical of making choices and then complaining about the choices one has made.
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@qrsbrwn @ascclemens @sir addendum to discord: i did get one of my friends mad at me for leaving. even though i told him exactly why i couldnt use discord anymore, he somehow forgot and thought i left to avoid him personally

i guess some people are just sensitive around stuff like that

@qrsbrwn it's perfectly valid for @ascclemens to complain about the results of shitty situations they've been put into as a result of social forces they can't control.

@ascclemens @qrsbrwn @sir creatures of comfort. If the change is to hard for your circle, just being on the frontiers is good enough. Because when the change will come, you will show the way.

That's just life of an early adopter.

My current goal is to simplify matrix for my circle, bridge every channel on slack, and the wait. It's like building a roads, the settlers will come.

@ascclemens @sir xmpp's my preferred contact for friends, which is why im trying my best to set up and document a server config that exposes the most usability that people would expect out of a modern chat platform

@wowaname @sir I couldn't get people to move from IRC to XMPP, mainly because the client support for XMPP is just awful. Especially if you want E2EE.

@ascclemens @sir agreed. cross-key signing is something @mewmew prefers in matrix over xmpp, and i agree that it would make xmpp+omemo a lot nicer to use, but someone has to make that contribution to standardise such a feature and implement it in clients

@wowaname @mewmew @sir I just remember Matrix used to have per-device keys and you had to manually verify each one. Once they let you verify one and then future devices just worked, it made it so much nicer.

@ascclemens @wowaname @sir if only Matrix had a good grouping mechanism I could probably get my Discord friends to switch (alongside not taking like 30sec to load though that's more Synapse's fault for sucking)
@mewmew @ascclemens @sir communities in matrix were so close yet so far from actually solving a real use case
@wowaname @ascclemens @sir it's so frustrating, I wanna slap the people at NV so bad

@mewmew @wowaname @sir Yeah, I don't know why it takes SO long to load chat history. It also needs a way to group channels that isn't "communities", yeah.

@ascclemens @wowaname @sir well, part of it is the homeserver you’re on. mine isn’t too slow.

@ascclemens @mewmew @sir to understand matrix, you must first understand the DAG
@wowaname @ascclemens @sir just wait until you hear about org.matrix.dummy_event :comfypeekeyes:
@ascclemens @mewmew @wowaname @sir it takes a long time to load chat history mainly because "lazy loading" isn't implemented yet.
So it has to load a bunch of data before showing anything on screen.
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